2025 is already shaping up to be the most revolutionary year healthcare marketing has seen in decades. Is your business seizing the extraordinary opportunities before us, or is it being left behind?
Join Stewart Gandolf, MBA, CEO of Healthcare Success and recognized thought leader for over 20 years, as he unveils groundbreaking strategies for 2025 about how to:
Don’t miss the opportunity to gain actionable insights that can transform your healthcare marketing in 2025. Register now to secure your spot!
Stewart Gandolf
CEO
Brett Maurer
Creative Director
Victoria Shepherd
Technical Program Manager
* The following transcript is computer generated and may contain errors.
00:00:00:15 - 00:00:24:24
Stewart Gandolf
Hello and welcome. Welcome to our webinar, Revolutionary Healthcare Marketing seven Vital Strategies for 2025. We will be recording this webinar. So just in case you have to run away and leave us, we'll miss you. But the, fear not, the recording will be recorded or the webinar will be recorded. Also, we will have a Q&A session at the end.
00:00:24:24 - 00:00:47:08
Stewart Gandolf
So stand by for that. I want to welcome our listeners today or in our viewers. New attendance. Some of you attending, I know have been following us for a long time. Others of you may be brand new to healthcare success. And also this particular webinar was co-sponsored by Health Exact Viruses. Some of our, attendees today have never been on healthcare success before, so welcome.
00:00:47:08 - 00:01:08:01
Stewart Gandolf
If you referred to us by health exact via. And thanks for their participation in this webinar. Today we are going to talk about, the revolution that's happening right now in healthcare marketing. And I've been doing marketing now for a while, and I just can't think of a year that I can remember with more happening all in one year.
00:01:08:01 - 00:01:32:24
Stewart Gandolf
It is just explosive. The things that are changing right now. And I of course, is at the heart of a lot of it. But that's not all. So today we're going to talk about, what's going on in 2025 and into 2026. Obviously we're recording this already. 2025 has already started, but the the change of the acceleration of change just keeps going faster and faster.
00:01:33:01 - 00:01:50:23
Stewart Gandolf
So we'll we'll be talking about some topics that I talk about a lot. Some of the things we as Competition is always prevalent and always increasing. We'll talk about that. We'll talk about a, we'll talk about integrated marketing, living brand, some of the other things here you can read and we'll be talking about today.
00:01:51:00 - 00:02:12:00
Stewart Gandolf
By the way, we do a lot of content. So again, if you're new to us and you're interested in going deeper on any of these topics, I recommend you stay. Subscribe to our newsletter on our blog. We'll be having a lot of podcasts in the near future about some of these topics. Going deeper. And we have a vast library on health care success.com of webinars, e-books, blogs and so forth.
00:02:12:00 - 00:02:29:13
Stewart Gandolf
So there's lots more, to have. So today I'm going to introduce, a couple of esteemed, co leaders Coconspirators friends, colleagues. Brett Mauer is our, creative director design. He's in New York today. Welcome, Brett.
00:02:29:15 - 00:02:32:02
Brett Maurer
Thank you, sir, and looking forward to.
00:02:32:04 - 00:02:48:18
Stewart Gandolf
Victoria is our technical program manager coming in from Florida. She is, this is one of her passion topics. So I called her yesterday and surprised as I got to do this survey, and she's like, sure. Welcome to the, webinar again today.
00:02:48:20 - 00:02:51:17
Victoria Shepherd
Victoria Stewart.
00:02:51:19 - 00:03:10:14
Stewart Gandolf
So great. So we're going to be jumping straight into this. So, again, if you don't know us, we are a full service marketing agency founded back in 2006. We've been doing this for about 20 years. We do a ton of content, and are very proud of the work we do. We're also an integrated agency.
00:03:10:14 - 00:03:34:13
Stewart Gandolf
So we're not just educators. We actually do this stuff. Everything we're about to talk about today. So let's talk about, why do we even need a revolution or approach? Like, why is this even a thing? Well, first of all, as I alluded to a moment ago, I was just changing everything in marketing. And that's not news. But we want to bring this, to a, a little bit more, focus today.
00:03:34:13 - 00:03:54:04
Stewart Gandolf
And again, we can't teach you everything we know in 45 minutes. We're gonna cover some of these topics, and we have lots more available. If you're interested. Health care. Consumerism is something I've been passionate about for at least the last 15 years. And I think the rest of the world is catching up on this topic. So healthcare, consumerism and patient experience is really crucial.
00:03:54:06 - 00:04:17:05
Stewart Gandolf
And these are all some of the things that we're talking about today. Value based care is changing everything. The regulatory changes are changing. Media is fragmented. You know, we laugh now. I just did a podcast. We tried to tell our traditional media buyer and even that traditional media has become fragmented to the point where, you know, it's kind of a blend of digital and traditional media.
00:04:17:11 - 00:04:35:21
Stewart Gandolf
So immediately the landscape continues to change. All of these things are happening at once. And of course, economic uncertainty. Do we have tariffs do we not. What are what's going on. Was the stock market up today or is it down right. So there's a lot going on as we're speaking. And it causes a lot of uncertainty. And again these things aren't new.
00:04:35:22 - 00:05:00:19
Stewart Gandolf
I just think it's the acceleration of change. It's new. All of these things have been around for a while, but they just seem to be accelerating and, having a huge impact on us. So we're going to start off and talk about the competition. And this is something that, you know, having been doing health care marketing for many years, the, people didn't talk about competition and polite company before.
00:05:00:21 - 00:05:31:12
Stewart Gandolf
It wasn't it was sort of we're all colleagues in this game. And but today, you know, we see that, the whole landscape has changed. So one of the things I talk about a lot, and I've done whole webinars on this is that, you know, we work a lot with, you know, larger businesses, which could be, you know, multi-location providers, addiction hospitals, health systems, health plans, SaaS device, pharma, lots of different types of businesses and health care.
00:05:31:14 - 00:05:48:20
Stewart Gandolf
But I do find that a lot of times marketing is still looked at as an expense. Not always. Some people really get that marketing is at the core of their business, but a lot still really undervalue and underestimate the power of marketing to grow their business. Private equity and, venture capital is something we work with all the time.
00:05:48:22 - 00:06:11:08
Stewart Gandolf
We see private equity is involved with probably at least 70, 80% of our new clients. So there's oftentimes a private equity function. And even there, depending on the business, they may not fully recognize the value of marketing. A lot of times they're thinking about in the private equity side, things like revenue cycle management, cost control, expanding and scaling.
00:06:11:08 - 00:06:36:22
Stewart Gandolf
Those are all really important things, obviously, but marketing should have a key to that growth table in our experience. And we can talk about that a little bit. What we do find, though, is that as these businesses grow, they tend to get more sophisticated and they tend to get larger pockets, more business savvy. And, you know, when they get better, they start to begin really investing in town and marketing.
00:06:36:22 - 00:06:55:09
Stewart Gandolf
So again, it's usually they're not. When we work with organizations, it's kind of like a life cycle. When there are newer, they don't understand the value of marketing. When they start getting better and they start getting into more competition. It just increases. So it's really routine now for us to have clients with a chief marketing officer on the other side of the table.
00:06:55:11 - 00:07:26:15
Stewart Gandolf
You know, I don't know, a decade ago that was pretty rare. And so now there's four marketing departments. And, you know, there are some very well-known name brand hospitals out there with more than 100 marketing people working for the hospital, which may surprise you. So the sophistication has grown, which means the competition continues to grow. Also, the sophistication of the tech stack has continued to grow, and those people are really understand the tracking analytics, acquisition cost, ROI have a huge competitive advantage over those who do not.
00:07:26:15 - 00:07:53:01
Stewart Gandolf
And you'd be surprised there's a just because they've organized as big does not mean they're sophisticated. So there are some that are incredibly sophisticated. There are others, not so much. And then the other part that we talk about a lot and see a lot is that new business models have emerged. And one of the biggest examples of this would be telehealth, because the telehealth companies that are pure plays are typically going for 1 or 2 really highly profitable niches.
00:07:53:03 - 00:08:14:24
Stewart Gandolf
And so they're focused, whereas, you know, a hospital might have hundreds of service lines, a telehealth company has one, and they get very focused on doing that very, very well. So we're seeing that. And also and this is not new, you know, ASCs came into the marketplace and took market share away from hospitals for lucrative outpatients or surgeries.
00:08:15:01 - 00:08:41:13
Stewart Gandolf
So the these telehealth models are coming in and, taking share away as well. So when we're thinking about, well, how do I succeed when there's sort of dizzying. And I just told you the problem. Right. Well, what are some solutions? You know, as we prepared for this webinar, we talked about what we're seeing, what tends to be more, what our clients that are more competitive have in common.
00:08:41:15 - 00:09:08:22
Stewart Gandolf
And the first thing is I would recommend you consider modernizing your marketing tech stack. We practice, we preach. When I give that advice. You know, we've been, tech forward company for since the founding, right? We've some of the things that are routine now, we did like when we first opened the doors in 2006, just for example, cloud based, computing for all of our records, all of our we've never had a server, for example, this was new back in 2006.
00:09:08:24 - 00:09:34:16
Stewart Gandolf
So, you know, we've always been on the leading edge of this, but right now there's so much going on that we're looking back at all of our tech staff with new fresh eyes and saying, okay, what's best in class for tracking, what's best in class reputation management, what's best in class for patient communications? What's best in class for our SEO tools, all of these kinds of decisions, we are going through right now as we speak, because the it's a whole new day.
00:09:34:20 - 00:09:51:03
Stewart Gandolf
I mean, it's changed that much these are all even our favorite tools. We have to go back, say, is this still best in class? In some cases it is. In some places we're making changes. So I would recommend you look at your tech stack very carefully and look at modernizing it. I mentioned here it challenge your assumptions.
00:09:51:03 - 00:10:16:04
Stewart Gandolf
You know, again it's a new day. What's possible today that wasn't possible before. That's really important to think like that. That's how breakthrough thinking happens. Consumer centricity. So many organizations are really focused on themselves, our operations, making our doctors happy or other stakeholders and the patients like, hey, wait, what about me? I'm over here, you know, like, what do they think?
00:10:16:04 - 00:10:39:13
Stewart Gandolf
So what about consumer centricity? The agent centric, right team? Victoria mentioned is like, you know, AI agents think about your AI agents and how I'll do that, and I'll talk about that in a moment. Always focus on ROI. And we talked about investing in marketing. We'll talk a little bit about, integrated campaigns also in just a moment, as well as the consumer journey.
00:10:39:15 - 00:11:03:03
Stewart Gandolf
And one thing that, I Victoria and I are both passionate about, this is becoming a thought leader. And it's fun. I was talking to Victoria as we prepared for this meeting and about, somebody I interviewed for our podcast back in 2010 who today is a real thought leader in the space, and he still has the, his podcast interview on his LinkedIn profile from 2006.
00:11:03:03 - 00:11:26:15
Stewart Gandolf
So that was a purposeful right? I'm sorry, 2010. That was a purpose for, you know, building thought leadership over time. And that is a way to stand out as to build that thought leadership. So the first topic I want to drill down, or the second topic I want to drill down into beyond competition, is how do we deal with AI ChatGPT, you know, looms large language models as zero click searches.
00:11:26:15 - 00:11:47:10
Stewart Gandolf
Like that's a thing, right. And I've had clients. It's funny, we just did a podcast on this topic, and one of my clients called me and said, what do I do? About 0:00 I go, here, here's my podcast on this very topic. I knew you'd be asking. That's really true. I thought I knew that particular client would ask, so, I'm not going to do the whole podcast here, but we can talk about this a little.
00:11:47:12 - 00:12:12:03
Stewart Gandolf
So first of all, I want to assure you that AI is not near zero. Click searches are not. No. So I has been around now for several decades. Google was an Amazon. Notably were pioneers in this category along with some others way back at the turn of the century. So, AI is not new. It's been around, large language models, which are our version of AI, are the ones that you're thinking about with AI.
00:12:12:05 - 00:12:39:22
Stewart Gandolf
But there's lots of different variations of AI. Zero click searches are not new either. Zero click searches have been involved in various forms on Google for years. Starting off with featured snippets, profiles, different things. So there are the zero click has definitely increase though right. So now there's Google AI overviews. Some people are using ChatGPT or perplexity, other kinds of AI.
00:12:40:02 - 00:13:01:04
Stewart Gandolf
So this is changing. And it is so on one hand, the messages don't panic. On the other hand, brace yourself. It's a really funny time to be. And and we'll talk about market share in just a moment. And Victoria will cover that in a moment. So again, like I know that our audience includes a vast variety of people.
00:13:01:04 - 00:13:19:07
Stewart Gandolf
Some of you are marketing professionals, some of you are CEOs, some of you are tech people. Some of you are in the weeds with marketing. So and very different types of organizations. So for the for the total, AI nerds, I'm going to cover some things today that are, in the weeds. But most of this is going to be high level.
00:13:19:07 - 00:13:41:01
Stewart Gandolf
You can again drill down to your heart content with some of our other content. So the but for those of you that are less initiated with the powers of AI and LMS, some of the things that are happening in marketing right now is clearly content creation. Although we can expect to see content become less and less valued as people overuse AI and just put out crap.
00:13:41:03 - 00:14:00:01
Stewart Gandolf
So, you know, and you don't want to do that. Just because you can't do it doesn't mean you should. It reminds me on PowerPoint first came out. Remember all those people were using those little spit, starbursts and pinwheels and all these tools and pretty much you should never use any of us. So if I yes, you can use it for content generation.
00:14:00:01 - 00:14:22:08
Stewart Gandolf
It's great for inspiration and ideation. But, the when you think about it, all this content out there, the idea of the content is it's trying to find unique and points of view. If you're using AI, you're not getting unique points of view, you're getting summaries of other people's points of view. So fresh original content with a different point of view is where you want to go.
00:14:22:08 - 00:14:49:23
Stewart Gandolf
But using content creation as a tool is part of that process. So, you know, we still employ health care writers that are veterans. They understand writing for health care, they understand all the nuances there, and we're not going to stop and throw them away. And in favor of AI, we use AI as a tool for content ideation and for, going down, but we certainly don't replace writers with that, graphics, photo or video creation.
00:14:50:00 - 00:15:08:10
Stewart Gandolf
You know, Brett's on this call is, we talked about this all the time in our meetings. By the way, our agency has something called AI and Innovation Club that every month we talk about the latest great uses to do this. And what's exciting about this is instead of replacing team members, we're just doing things faster to benefit our clients.
00:15:08:10 - 00:15:28:11
Stewart Gandolf
We put the same amount of time and effort in building stuff. We're just moving quicker. So the, again, these are tools. We don't just rely on these tools. We use them tweak or we use them to scale, road stuff so we can put the thinking time into stuff that matters. We're going to talk about call tracking, shortly.
00:15:28:13 - 00:15:46:23
Stewart Gandolf
The within the Google platform, you know, there's Google ad, there's ad creation, there's different algorithms that are changing, the market foundation, there's lots of places where AI comes into plays. Victoria, I want to say a few words more about this, because this is like your tech geek nerd. So I want you to.
00:15:47:00 - 00:16:10:17
Victoria Shepherd
Yeah. I'm gonna namedrop Rand Fishkin a couple times. He's, if people aren't familiar with him. He is the creator of spark. Toro. He was, I believe Maus, used to do a lot of, He's a very great thoughts at the swing of thought leader, and digital marketing. So, and, basically this is with AI coming around.
00:16:10:22 - 00:16:37:20
Victoria Shepherd
You know, people are like, what about are people leaving Google and the long story is, no, we're not leaving Google. People are yes. We're we're utilizing, you know, perplexity and Claude and ChatGPT. But Google, as you can see, we've got over trillions and trillions of searches. So it's still something that we need to invest in. It's more about diversification of your content and the different channels that you're that you're using.
00:16:37:20 - 00:17:17:07
Victoria Shepherd
So, they people still need to, remain competitive utilizing AI, for productivity, like you said, Stuart, ideation, and scalability. So but we're still a Google is still remaining a dominant, part of, you know, marketers and, and every industry and I think with AI overview we can go to the next slide. And so when we're talking about it from an SEO perspective strategy that's still stories that matter overall, we need to build topical authority.
00:17:17:07 - 00:17:46:15
Victoria Shepherd
You know, you've got to talk about content that's unique and niche and, well structured because if it's AI generated, it's like you said, it's very generic and it's not going to get that. We still are really focusing on internal linking from one page to the other. And in the background, me and, my colleagues are doing some things from an AI perspective to expedite AI internal linking that matters.
00:17:46:15 - 00:18:11:07
Victoria Shepherd
So we're again, Stuart, like you're saying, we're really challenging ourselves in in healthcare success for how are we using AI from a scalable productivity perspective? You want to optimize your sorry. Go ahead and then focus on structured, clear data. You want to fix broken links. And then, upright cut content that's factual, unbiased and helpful.
00:18:11:07 - 00:18:35:08
Victoria Shepherd
And then your goal is when learning language models, generate answers, they pull from trusted, clear sources. So make yours one of them so we can go to the next slide. And then people are like well victory. How do I appear in queries. Follow best practices. And using schema which is a structured data create contextual relevant content.
00:18:35:08 - 00:19:01:10
Victoria Shepherd
You got to emphasize credibility. Optimize for conversational. So query based leverage digital digital PR PR is not going anywhere. And then focus on the unique data and points and then test element tools so you can appear everywhere. You can go to the next slide. And I think I've shared use this is my tech stack. So I'm been in a lot of this stuff.
00:19:01:10 - 00:19:24:18
Victoria Shepherd
Canva is probably not new to people. And I think Stuart I've got question answers, but I think we'll be sharing the deck after this. So this is my tech stack that I use from a small perspective. I talk about Misty. It's a desktop application that runs all your eyes. So it's offline and it's private. It's powerful.
00:19:24:18 - 00:19:49:23
Victoria Shepherd
So I when I'm doing search like that, I use Misty as my local easy gennaio. There's Ruben has created this, got this amazing tool. It's basically putting your LinkedIn on steroids. It's it's optimizing your LinkedIn posts. And since I've used it, I've gotten tremendous growth from an engagement perspective. Perplexity, pro hugging face. It's, you know, running.
00:19:49:23 - 00:20:19:07
Victoria Shepherd
I'm learning AI agents. I'm creating things. I'm utilizing them. There's a huggingface spaces where you can like, look for, for example, your LinkedIn post generator, Pod Pro, it's another, helpful long form content brainstorming ideas idea. Graham. It's great for images, but, you know, not all images are created equal. So, even when I'm prompting, you get some great images and sometimes not so great images.
00:20:19:07 - 00:20:39:03
Victoria Shepherd
Gamma app. I think this is great. What we were able to do for, for, working with team members, for example, I had to create, a guide for a client, and I was able to use gamma to kind of create the look and feel of it. And then I was able to give it to Brent's team, and they kind of just blew it up.
00:20:39:03 - 00:20:59:24
Victoria Shepherd
So it was really neat to have that collaboration. Canva. Deep search. So these are just a couple of tools that I've been using. Like I said, happy to go more into them, maybe at a later time, but you know, so Stuart said we already have, you know, lots of content out there and but yeah, I'm huge on finding new things.
00:21:00:00 - 00:21:24:09
Victoria Shepherd
My, Brandon, who is my supervisor, help care. Him and I are constantly chatting about latest things. I just found out that, you know, Google just said, like moments before this webinar, created sent our prompt engineering guide. So I thought that was really neat. Anyways, I could go on for hours and hours about this, so I know we are at time, but what's the next slide?
00:21:24:09 - 00:21:24:21
Victoria Shepherd
Stuart?
00:21:24:24 - 00:21:48:10
Stewart Gandolf
What's that? I'll take it from here for a moment, but yeah, sure. So Victoria, and it's just in one example. Victoria is one of the, team members that is aggressively using and we're using all across the agency through paid digital, through our SEO, through content, through, design. Again, like, I would just want to emphasize, it's not that we're, you know, suddenly, oh, we don't need people or just doing more faster, like.
00:21:48:10 - 00:22:09:19
Stewart Gandolf
So, for example, I was talking with, Brian and his head of our digital team about how SEO and, document some of the people that work with us, about how a lot of the road stuff that we have is very expensive, people had to do manually, can now use their brainpower much faster to handle the road stuff, so we can just get to where we need to go faster for our on the behalf of our clients.
00:22:09:21 - 00:22:31:12
Stewart Gandolf
All right. So integrated marketing, some of the you that, followers may know that we're an integrated agency, and what that means is really, that, because everybody says they do this, but most people don't. So there's branding agencies that are really branding and creative agencies. They say they do digital, but not really are they? Do they say the digital agency said they do branding and creative, but not really.
00:22:31:12 - 00:22:50:07
Stewart Gandolf
And, for our own, sake, we've always had the goal of being integrated, but we were definitely much stronger on digital for many years. And the creative and the branding has, now caught up with that. But that's it's difficult to do as an agency honor to have do really both really well. And I'm proud to say we got there, but it only took us 20 years.
00:22:50:07 - 00:23:34:03
Stewart Gandolf
So there's that. The, today, integrated marketing is really vital because the consumer's journey is all about do this like you get touched very often by different media. Right. So we have this is just a quick little slide that we talk about the sort of one model of awareness, consideration, decision, experience and loyalty. There's various models, as you may know, IRA and different ones, but the if you just breaking this down kind of like early at the funnel journey, like where people are looking at traditional media, programmatic news, you know, throughout the journey, they're looking at Google and, ChatGPT and other lams, typically, you know, if you're
00:23:34:03 - 00:23:58:12
Stewart Gandolf
a local provider, it gets really down to Google local or landing pages in the middle there. And then of course, following up. So they've got the journey is complex. You've got doctors in there and pharma in there. There's just a million different touchpoints. And so, congratulations. You only have to be everywhere. That's what this means. So, you know, when we talk about integrated marketing, then again, just to kind of cover what I just said.
00:23:58:12 - 00:24:21:06
Stewart Gandolf
So you need to really think deeply about your branding and PR and traditional advertising and digital marketing. And, you know, I would add to this and should have had this on the slide, doctor referral building and patient experience like, these are all things that really matter, that you want to have your messaging, you know, unified, want to be across all channels.
00:24:21:08 - 00:24:45:14
Stewart Gandolf
We need to adapt that messaging depending on the channel. What's spread I'll talk about in just a moment and always keeping the consumer at the center. So this is more of a construct for the consumer side. With B2B, it's the same thing. We talk about omnichannel or surround sound channel marketing to HCP. So for those of you and those of you, so those of you that I did that twice today, like what did that come from?
00:24:45:16 - 00:25:10:10
Stewart Gandolf
I was talking off line. Suddenly my grammar is going out the window anyway. The, that's why I'm a speaker. The, when we're marketing to health care professionals, what's really exciting today is that we have to reach them for many of our clients. And so search still matters. Social, programmatic, geofencing as a method of reaching, https when they're all at Congresses or various events.
00:25:10:10 - 00:25:30:15
Stewart Gandolf
Email, direct mail. These are very classic kinds of marketing tactics to reach out to professionals. But again, where are they? You want to be everywhere. And one of the things that we talk about that, people don't really aren't really up on a lot of times is that you can target HCP, and others online as they travel about online.
00:25:30:15 - 00:25:52:21
Stewart Gandolf
So if you have a list of emails or a list of even their names and their companies, you can target people individually online as they go on LinkedIn or Facebook or Instagram. It's not 100%. Your match rate will vary. It could be somewhere between 50% to 80%, but broadly speaking, you can be everywhere when people are traveling about online through programmatic as well.
00:25:52:23 - 00:26:16:01
Stewart Gandolf
So that's a very powerful tool. And so for example, with our agency, we know who our key target audience segments are. And so we do target people as they are traveling, particularly on LinkedIn, which is a big thing for us. And we feel everybody else can find us. But those people that are really key to us, we want to make sure we stay in front of them in a meaningful, positive way, providing value, not chasing and stalking.
00:26:16:01 - 00:26:34:21
Stewart Gandolf
Right. So it's an important tool you can do as well, particularly with Https. We're notoriously hard to reach. Again, we have webinars on reaching Https of that mission. We can have plenty of detail on all of these topics, but for now, just recognize you can target people online. Victoria, you got a couple slides here before I turn it over to Brett.
00:26:34:23 - 00:26:55:19
Victoria Shepherd
Since just kind of emphasizing, you know, we talk about like marketing budget, marketing dollars and, you know, a lot of executives want to say we'll put more money in paid put more in pay payments. Really. You've got to be everywhere, you know, you've got to invest in brand. That's social. You know, content, other channels, even. You mean Reddit is even even coming.
00:26:55:24 - 00:27:20:10
Victoria Shepherd
But then, I am a big proponent for executives being on LinkedIn. I mean, you can you look at Stewart? He is one of the you know, it was funny. I remember when I first started working with Stewart, I was using ChatGPT and I said, who was the top, top healthcare marketing professionals? And Stewart actually came up, and so I sent him a screenshot.
00:27:20:10 - 00:27:31:20
Victoria Shepherd
So, I think I'm a big proponent of having executives and thought using LinkedIn too. But again, goes back, you got to be everywhere diversifying your content.
00:27:31:22 - 00:27:35:05
Stewart Gandolf
Okay, let's talk about PR just a little bit online PR in particular.
00:27:35:07 - 00:27:56:06
Victoria Shepherd
Yeah. So we've got to use it. They've it's evolved. You know you've got to have a strategy. You've got to use. You know with PR fuels out the algorithm. So you've got to be in front of it. So like we are, we are drinking the Kool-Aid when it comes to that. You know, Stuart's got that.
00:27:56:07 - 00:28:26:02
Victoria Shepherd
We've got social, we've got the podcast, we've got newsletters, we've got AI tools. So I think what, because PR, it's your unique voice. You are the human, you are the person. And utilizing that. I think also when you're doing it PR, I think teaching people how to fish being educational, like what we're doing right now, and this is kind of proving that we're experts and utilizing that in PR to kind of say, hey, we know what we're doing and we're really good at it.
00:28:26:04 - 00:28:33:23
Victoria Shepherd
So, yeah. And I think that's kind of just the emphasis on that. I it's still it's still around and you still have to use it.
00:28:34:00 - 00:28:39:16
Stewart Gandolf
Very good. And Brett, we are on time in a beard. We're not running late for a change.
00:28:39:16 - 00:29:16:05
Brett Maurer
So yeah, miracles happen. But hello everyone. I'm Brett Mauer. I'm the creative director of design here. I'm just going to lead you through this idea of how to revitalize your brand, or rather, let it live. It doesn't need to be as stagnant as maybe some of us think. Traditionally. I didn't introduce myself too much, but I've been in the brand world for about 20 years now, and ten years ago, I probably wouldn't be telling you what I'm telling you today, but today it matters very much.
00:29:16:05 - 00:29:51:03
Brett Maurer
And it goes back to efficiency targeting and conversion. That's all that matters when we're talking about brand now. So really quickly I'm going to go into this idea of living brand. And this is essentially it. Your brand should be built to be able to flex according to what audience, what platform you're speaking to. So if we're talking about a visual ad, let's say paid social, for instance, we all know Facebook, we all know feeds, we know Twitter.
00:29:51:05 - 00:30:20:19
Brett Maurer
There's a lot there. There's a lot of eye confusion. There. So if your brand is only gray and black or if it's only red, sometimes you kind of blend in and certain colors, certain treatments, certain best practices. What what are your subjects doing in your images really help conversion like a shocking amount. So really what living brand is about is saying we have this beautiful brand, we know how we want to talk about it.
00:30:20:19 - 00:30:48:18
Brett Maurer
We know how we want to present ourselves working that shift a little bit to better take advantage of your possible patients to better catch their eye. That's really what we're talking about here. So brand has become, as Stuart mentioned earlier, that, you know, we've really been working hard on brand and how it works in today's world. You know, we're now involved, you and I.
00:30:48:23 - 00:31:10:24
Brett Maurer
You know there's a lot of platforms. So really what this is boils down to is how do we make the brand stand out without breaking your brand and the idea there is we just design more flexible brands that allow you to do more with it within your brand guidelines or your brand system. If you will. This is pretty straightforward, right?
00:31:10:24 - 00:31:38:06
Brett Maurer
This is kind of what I was just talking to, kind of silly images. But on the left your brands died. On the right, your brands growing or flourishing. The point there is if you don't shift your brand, it's going to die or it's going to suffer or it's going to get become weaker or more dated. So our goal with all of our brands is to continue to push what your brand is about, but not letting it be too stagnant.
00:31:38:08 - 00:31:38:22
Brett Maurer
Next slide.
00:31:38:22 - 00:32:02:20
Stewart Gandolf
Please. I just want I want to just add a little one comment. And this is particularly important today online where it's just so cluttered. And when you think about things and expanding on what Brant just said, you know, showing up in a, Facebook feed versus Instagram versus TikTok, those are all different expectations. Are there? How does a brand look appropriate but still stay true to its brand?
00:32:02:22 - 00:32:04:18
Stewart Gandolf
Things we care about a lot.
00:32:04:20 - 00:32:26:19
Brett Maurer
Absolutely. And I just got a question I'm going to handle on the fly here. How do you create a living brand while still being consistent? My quick answer and we can reset. We can circle back on this, is that you create a broader brand system that takes into account where you're going, where are you going to be advertising, what platforms you're going to be advertising.
00:32:27:00 - 00:32:47:09
Brett Maurer
And I have a quick example on that coming up here. We all know Google. This is probably the oldest quote unquote living brand. Why do I say that? Because they let their logo change and it doesn't hurt their brand equity. It doesn't hurt their brand value. They really embrace kind of being goofy. You know, like the Doctor Seuss Google logo.
00:32:47:09 - 00:33:11:17
Brett Maurer
They really embrace letting their brand shift. But here is a great example. You see their their core logo, you see their beautiful logo, bug or symbol, if you will, and look at all the variations there. But they still relate back to the master brand. They still pick up the same colors, they still pick up the same builds. So this is a very old one, but it's still a really good one.
00:33:11:18 - 00:33:33:01
Brett Maurer
It's not bad to let your brand shift should your logo shift like Google. Maybe not. It depends on what we're trying to do with it. But should your communications shift and should how you deal with them? Absolutely. Your collateral. If you are. Next slide plasma source. To answer the question, how do you create a living brand? This is a really good example.
00:33:33:01 - 00:33:56:19
Brett Maurer
This is one of our favorite clients. We did all the branding work, the strategy, the positioning, the visual identity, the brand guidelines. But what you see here, if you look at that bottom right graphic, the tons of little color boxes, a lot of brand guidelines are pretty limited. They give you four primary colors, they give you eight secondary colors and maybe three.
00:33:56:21 - 00:34:24:20
Brett Maurer
Here is in this case, we gave them as many colors as we could think of that would work within their brand system so that in the future, if we do get to a platform where for some reason Red is converting way better than green, right? Just based on AB testing, based on the results, we tried to include a color palette that could accommodate that.
00:34:24:22 - 00:34:54:07
Brett Maurer
Again, you just really build out a more a broader visual system is the simple answer to that. The more complicated answer to that is the ability to recognize when your brand is not achieving what you need it to do online and communications, and being open to shifting that in a way that complements what already exists. Here's a really good example.
00:34:54:09 - 00:35:17:14
Brett Maurer
These are three different campaigns for the same companies that we did. Great company. They're actually organized top to bottom. So the left two are one system. The middle vertical two are another, the last are the last vertical two are another. But you see here we're really shifting the way we advertise and our targets and who we're focusing on.
00:35:17:16 - 00:35:49:05
Brett Maurer
And even the visual system dramatically different between these three. These three, if I'm not mistaken. Stuart, correct me if I'm wrong. These three ad types were probably about nine months apart, 9 to 12 months apart. Here we do practice what we preach. To Stuart mentioned earlier, we really like to let our brand weave. Right. So in this case you see a lot of our social ads.
00:35:49:07 - 00:36:19:06
Brett Maurer
Do they look like they're exactly the same language? No, because we let ourselves flex, especially for LinkedIn, especially for Twitter, so that we get more engagement. Right. Do we have anything to do with the MTV logo from 20 years ago? No, but it fitted that infographic and it got us a lot of engagement. So it really we really what the topics of our webinars are podcasts or social graphics.
00:36:19:06 - 00:36:42:19
Brett Maurer
We let those drive what we're doing. That being said, they all fit within what we consider to be our brand architecture. Really interesting note I just took you guys through the living brand. We actually have an entire webinar on that, like a full on our webinar with myself. Our strategy lead, I believe Stuart as well. It really dies down and the live in brand.
00:36:42:19 - 00:37:12:23
Brett Maurer
So to our user who asked the question if you have more questions. So check out the podcast. We've been brand. We get in more detail there. And here is kind of the big thing. We just kind of stay current. We have to accommodate the variations in the marketplace, the variations on platforms. And at the end of the day, what is making your users click, what is making your users call, what is making your users schedule appointment.
00:37:13:00 - 00:37:35:04
Brett Maurer
And we don't want to let the brand stand in a way from those best practice conversions. That's all realized through really intelligent, thoughtful design, thoughtful strategy, and the ability to test after the fact and make sure that you can really dial in what is bringing the people to you that you need.
00:37:35:06 - 00:37:36:19
Stewart Gandolf
Right now is awesome. Thank you.
00:37:36:19 - 00:37:38:08
Brett Maurer
Right. Thank you.
00:37:38:10 - 00:37:57:04
Stewart Gandolf
All right. So I'll bring most of this home today. We've got about another probably five, eight minutes before we get to the Q&A section. So one thing that's coming up, this actually, this topic was inspired by a fun discussion on one of my recent podcasts about, well, what do you do in the area of AI based care?
00:37:57:06 - 00:38:24:03
Stewart Gandolf
You know, things are moving there slowly. It's taking forever to get to value based care was capitation. But, you know, we work with, as I mentioned earlier, a broad mix of really almost any type of health care organization, but certainly a lot of providers, whether it's health systems or multi-location practices or whatever. And, you know, in the old days, you know, when you went to like, for example, Qwest Med or some of the other hospital marketing conferences, everybody is talking about service lines, and that's still is very, very important.
00:38:24:03 - 00:38:43:21
Stewart Gandolf
And we do a lot of work for service lines. And, you know, attracting patients, however, not always right. So in a value based care model, it's not about getting more patients. It's not about doing more services. It's about getting the patient better and managing the populations or your patient's health, both on an individual basis on a larger scale basis.
00:38:43:21 - 00:39:02:14
Stewart Gandolf
So value based care is really about, you know, taking care of your patients. So whatever is the best way to do that. And the optimal way to do that. So then we have to think about what do we do that with marketing. Is marketing even valuable? I'm not trying to like the people looking for, you know, surgery.
00:39:02:16 - 00:39:18:05
Stewart Gandolf
What what am I doing? Marketing for a. Well, it turns out there's a lot of ways marketing is still relevant. So, for example, number one, a lot of times when working with people with diabetes care, our objective is to market to their own patient base and to keep them healthy, healthy and keep them out of the hospital.
00:39:18:05 - 00:39:47:24
Stewart Gandolf
That's a note or a worthy objective, right? So we get into prevention and blood pressure and cholesterol and, you know, weight loss or, you know, heart care or whatever. Our goal is to keep people out of the hospital. And that's certainly a very satisfying thing. And part of our day to help people with that. You know, it's funny, what our, our agency, none of us, you know, want to be clinicians, but we do have feel like we're a part of health care.
00:39:47:24 - 00:40:10:07
Stewart Gandolf
And so, for example, one of my clients or one of our employees is called me over the weekend talking about, you know, a friend of a friend's kid committed suicide. And it just reminded us all about how, you know, work with mental health professionals and how important our mission is. So when you think about keeping people healthy, that's a great mission, not just for, you know, the providers themselves, but even our own agency.
00:40:10:07 - 00:40:30:10
Stewart Gandolf
We think about our lives that way, thinking about our quality of outcomes over patient volume. Clearly, the other thing that we can do with marketing for value based, providers is thinking about what is their reputation, what is their brand, how do we create loyalty, prestige? How do we educate the public? How do we differentiate ourselves? How do we build our reputation?
00:40:30:12 - 00:40:54:05
Stewart Gandolf
You know, and again, it oftentimes comes down to we have the outward to the community and to our stakeholders. Right. It could be the donors, it could be the doctors, it could be the employees, it could be the patients. It's like outward and inward marketing to all stakeholders. So there's plenty to do with marketing. But I just bring this up because even though it's glacially slow moving over, it's still the, the the the glacier is still moving forward.
00:40:54:05 - 00:41:17:17
Stewart Gandolf
Right. The, value based care is, increasing, thankfully. And we're moving toward that model. There's plenty for marketing to do in a value based care marketing model. I assisted call tracking and bone agents. So this is something that I think is the technique. And he gets all geeky and excited about this, but I think this is transformative.
00:41:17:19 - 00:41:41:13
Stewart Gandolf
So call tracking has been around. And if you're doing any marketing at any level, you're probably familiar with the idea of doing call tracking and call reporting and essentially what that means is that when patients call off of an online ad, the machine replaces the, phone number. That's the static number with a dynamic number, which allows the platform to track that call and know where that ad came from.
00:41:41:18 - 00:42:04:09
Stewart Gandolf
And also an HIPAA compliant way to track a record. The call. This is not a new technology. This has been around, our agency in 2006 adopted this really early on. This is before most people knew this was even possible. I worked with a company back then called Call Source. We used to speak for them. So this has been around for 20 years, but, it's and it's the.
00:42:04:09 - 00:42:25:08
Stewart Gandolf
And the technology's changed, but it's really kind of essentially what it, was back then, but now it's revolutionary. And I'll describe that in a moment. The challenge with this, technology is that while you can listen to the calls, first time to listen to thousands of calls. Nobody. And there's various companies out there with models that bring humans into it.
00:42:25:10 - 00:42:45:18
Stewart Gandolf
You can hire outsource this. There's like, again, there's a call tracking comment that uses AI kind of, as humans listen to it. But really, honestly, nobody's listening to these calls. And what happens in the real world, as most calls are lost, most inquiries are lost. And it's like the bane of our lives that health care success, we generate thousands of calls and people don't answer the call.
00:42:45:19 - 00:43:05:23
Stewart Gandolf
It's forgotten. The busy signals are treated rudely. They get lost in phone trees and the real world is really, really hard. So much so that at one point I thought about buying a call center, to handle the calls for our clients and not super excited about that technology. So never got around to it. But fortunately, we have an answer.
00:43:06:00 - 00:43:25:14
Stewart Gandolf
One another blog post. We have to talk about this. This is so important and essentially this model that you can look up on our blog if you want it. It tells you that the consumer demand the in the machine work, the, that's number two over there. The in the Google ad platform, for example, the landing page, those are all really important.
00:43:25:14 - 00:43:47:03
Stewart Gandolf
But that conversion process, what actually happens to the phone call or the form or the online conversion process is equally important. And if, it doesn't matter what you do in steps one, two and three, if four is a zero, the whole thing is a zero, right? I often use another metaphor. I talk about, you know, driving the the football all the way down the field for your on the two yard line.
00:43:47:05 - 00:44:06:22
Stewart Gandolf
Finally the call goes over to the client and, you know, essentially the client goes and, or the receptionist goes and gets a pizza and a beer and they lose the game. Right. Like I done all that work doesn't matter if you can't answer your phone. There's some awesome news. Now, the new AI and we are in the process of reevaluating our tech stack.
00:44:06:24 - 00:44:25:11
Stewart Gandolf
The new AI platforms out, or the call tracking platforms are at various stages of getting are doing this. Some are better than others, but very soon we will be offering a new provider. I can't tell you which one yet, because we haven't announced it, that it is a fantastic job of using AI to listen to those calls.
00:44:25:11 - 00:44:52:24
Stewart Gandolf
It's been around theoretically for years, but it didn't work. It just didn't or. But now we'll be able to track, find out who's picking up their phone instantly, have early alerts when people are, have been able to evaluate offices on a location by location basis, be able to understand what's actually going on and score the leads, track the conversions so that the machine knows or the Google platform knows what actually became an appointment or didn't.
00:44:53:01 - 00:45:12:07
Stewart Gandolf
So this is a such a big topic. I will cover this as either a webinar on the podcast once we announce our new technology here. But you guys, this is a huge deal because it'll solve the biggest challenge we have as an agency that we can't control what happens in the back end. Now, we'll be able to show exactly what's happening and we'll be able to change.
00:45:12:09 - 00:45:32:03
Stewart Gandolf
The client will be able to adapt on their side, and we'll be able to convert based on people that are calling versus just inquiries. So very exciting. Also, there are now AI agents, there are technologies out there where I can actually answer the phone like a human. We're evaluating those technologies. This has to come, not ready to announce yet because we're evaluating these technologies now.
00:45:32:03 - 00:45:51:07
Stewart Gandolf
But these are game changers. Very, very excited about that. And you should be thinking about things like this because these are big changes. The final topic I want to talk about before the Q&A, and we've done a webinar on this is the whole idea of, HIPAA compliant tracking. So, you know, again, we've been tracking our clients campaigns for years.
00:45:51:07 - 00:46:21:00
Stewart Gandolf
We have dashboards, we do monthly reporting for our clients. This is not new. If your agency is not doing this or you're not doing this for yourself, you need to change. It's absolutely vital. You know, all of our clients, we have dashboards that we use with them, share results on a daily basis or on a monthly basis. And some of our clients want to go out and take a look at, you know, between on the ongoing sort of 24 hour basis, this is not, not new, but it's getting better and better and more and more sophisticated.
00:46:21:02 - 00:46:55:11
Stewart Gandolf
But the point I want to make today is if you're not initiated to this and surprisingly, not big numbers of people are still not aware of this, that back in 2022, The Markup did a gotcha piece on hospitals and found that the Facebook pixel was inside the patient portal on about a third of leading of hospitals, which caused like a the class action lawsuit started the next day and the OCR came out with a warning and, December of that year, and then or November and it just kind of turned the industry upside down.
00:46:55:11 - 00:47:18:04
Stewart Gandolf
And essentially, if you're using Facebook and using Google Analytics, and you're not taking the proper steps to ensure compliance, you're out of compliance. Google will not sign a, bar with you. Facebook will not sign a bill with you. So you need to figure out how to do your marketing and a HIPAA compliant way. We did a whole bunch of exhaustive work.
00:47:18:04 - 00:47:37:13
Stewart Gandolf
We've spent tens of thousands of dollars on attorneys and consultants. We landed on Facebook, I'm sorry, fresh paint as our partner. And so we use fresh paint for our clients. Again, we have a full webinar on this topic. There are other solutions out there. We we like fresh paint. You know, we're not saying that because we want to get a big kick back here.
00:47:37:13 - 00:47:54:15
Stewart Gandolf
We just find it. It's the best in class. But there are other options out there for sure. If you're interested in this topic, much more detailed. If you don't know about this and your marketing, you need to do your homework. You can email us afterwards. This webinar, we can direct you to a podcast that I updated this.
00:47:54:15 - 00:48:09:10
Stewart Gandolf
And you go to lots of detail, complete with links to attorneys and, relevant links. So if you're interested in that, email us after the webinar. And, we can point in the right direction there. Okay. So you guys, we're on time. Like exactly what.
00:48:09:15 - 00:48:12:24
Victoria Shepherd
Happened. Awesome.
00:48:13:01 - 00:48:29:20
Stewart Gandolf
We've done enough of these to kind of assess how many slides it's going to take to end up on time, but to come in at 1050. Exactly. That's awesome. So, here's my contact info and you can reach to Victoria and, Brett's for me as well, if you like. But the, this is my public email address.
00:48:29:20 - 00:48:46:02
Stewart Gandolf
So if you email me at this address, it may take me a day or two to get to you, but I promise I will. This is the, But this is where I can ask questions. Or, you know, if you're interested in working with our agency, you can contact us directly here. But I'm hoping that there's some questions in the chat.
00:48:46:02 - 00:48:49:03
Stewart Gandolf
Still, are there, guys? And if not, we can just talk about drill down.
00:48:49:05 - 00:48:56:21
Victoria Shepherd
To one for Brett or for both of you guys. If you're still building brand awareness and exposure, do you recommend a living brand?
00:48:56:23 - 00:48:59:18
Stewart Gandolf
All I, Brett, have all these questions.
00:48:59:20 - 00:49:14:10
Brett Maurer
And just have really quickly, someone did ask and I believe Victoria answer that we will provide the deck and our follow up email. So yes, if if anyone's wondering, the deck will go out the back.
00:49:14:10 - 00:49:16:09
Stewart Gandolf
We will pass the recording. Not the day we recorded.
00:49:16:09 - 00:49:44:09
Brett Maurer
Yes. I'm sorry, I don't. Yeah. This question, if you're still building brand awareness or exposure, do you recommend a live in brand? If I'm completely honest, I recommend a living brand before you start building brand awareness and exposure. If you don't have one, then it may be time to start to consider a Howard becomes one. Like I said 20 years ago, this was not a thing.
00:49:44:11 - 00:50:15:07
Brett Maurer
Ten years ago, this was almost a thing. But I believe, and from what I've seen, it is true that a lot of companies do this without understanding they're doing it, but they do it because it works. However they stumble into it, it works. We like to plan it so that it works. Like I said before, we like to design a brand that and again at the at the end of the day, living brand just means can your brand works.
00:50:15:09 - 00:50:39:21
Brett Maurer
So it's not something that needs to be done upfront. It's not something that you do at the end. It ideally, it just is something that you design in to what your brand flex to whatever need you have. You know, 20 years ago you couldn't change your logo color if you saw those ads that we could do for ourselves.
00:50:39:21 - 00:51:15:19
Brett Maurer
Our social ads, our logo colors almost never the same color. That being said, all the colors we used are designed to work within our system so that we establish that Echo's ecosystem that environment where people understand right away, oh, this is that brand. So yeah, I would honestly say that at this point, with the avenues that you can communicate and the amount of collateral platforms that you're working with every day if your brand isn't alive, is dead.
00:51:15:21 - 00:51:36:19
Stewart Gandolf
Yep, I get it. The next question is about, is your AI analysis company paired with some kind of CRM? I currently use HubSpot for similar metrics on emails. We do do the calls there doesn't seem very helpful. I'm not sure I'll answer what I think I'm interpreting this. The, the AI analysis company, I think they're referring to the call tracking there.
00:51:36:21 - 00:52:02:03
Stewart Gandolf
The call it. That's what this comes down to. This gets really complicated. And we have, some very talented programmers on our team because the whole tracking, one of the reasons why we're picking a common tech stack is because these days, every client comes to us with a different tech stack. And so while we can adapt to different tech stocks, we want to have favorite nation tech stocks to try to, make things easier for ourselves and for our clients.
00:52:02:05 - 00:52:26:06
Stewart Gandolf
With HubSpot specifically by the way, we use HubSpot for ourselves or HubSpot partner. And usually these, these tech stocks can integrate leading ones like HubSpot are pretty good. They all know they have to integrate. The cloud tracking platform integration is a big part of what we're choosing. So when we're looking at these call tracking platforms, we are a big issue is the interoperability.
00:52:26:06 - 00:52:45:16
Stewart Gandolf
Like how do these engage with various platforms. And so if you just oversimplify this for a moment, you have at one hand you have the call tracking. SAS we also have to think through like how do people actually make appointments. Do they call or do the book online. So that's like if they're booking online that's a different program typically.
00:52:45:18 - 00:53:06:01
Stewart Gandolf
And then we have to think about are they interacting directly with the practice management platform, which people often incorrectly refer to it as HR. You know, does that have how does that going to work? A lot of times most, practice management platforms are not set up for inquiries. They only track patients. So you have to go through the whole thing to become a patient.
00:53:06:07 - 00:53:31:12
Stewart Gandolf
So in some cases, we create a CRM in between the HR slash practice management platform and HubSpot is a, CRM or has a CRM, I should say, and until recently didn't have a HIPAA protected option. Although if you're doing B2B, it's a non-issue. So you can see just from this conversation it gets complicated. But the key is, and then by the way, things break sometimes.
00:53:31:14 - 00:53:53:09
Stewart Gandolf
So and then you have to integrate with the Google platform, the Facebook platform or press pay. So this requires to do this right requires some technical sophistication. But the answer is it is doable. And again I would just say it sounds like you're at it. You're working with hasn't been helpful at all. I would just reiterate that the AI that's been out there for call tracking has been horrible.
00:53:53:11 - 00:54:15:13
Stewart Gandolf
Horrible is a strong word, but yeah, horrible. It hasn't been very effective until now, but it's much, much better. And it's really exciting to see. There's a related question. I can take that I was the call track analyst or question, the, another question is about, meta ads. And if you're running meta. So one option is to take the Facebook Pixel out and run meta anyway.
00:54:15:15 - 00:54:42:24
Stewart Gandolf
And if you do that, that's compliant. But you won't get any results. And so your experience is correct. Like there's you can't if the whole idea of Facebook is that optimize is back in the day, you were able to really target very, very gradually for some very well-publicized controversies with meta. Meta switched entirely away from, targeting based on demographics and user information, and instead does it now based on AI.
00:54:42:24 - 00:55:03:08
Stewart Gandolf
Well, if it's not getting any feedback, who's responding, then it means that it's flying blind. And it's not getting better. It's not optimizing. Facebook has the whole algorithm is based on AI. So if you're not feeding it data, then it's doomed to fail. So that's why your Facebook campaign, without Facebook meta, Instagram is going to be very effective without the pixel.
00:55:03:10 - 00:55:16:18
Stewart Gandolf
So the solution is either run it without the pixel, like I said, or, that's one of the reasons why we use fresh paint or another technology to allow you to do that. Because without it, your Facebook campaign is not going to work very well.
00:55:16:20 - 00:55:27:08
Victoria Shepherd
You could even start doing just like simpler campaigns like click to call or to form, you know, just, smaller, more targeted.
00:55:27:10 - 00:55:47:16
Stewart Gandolf
Yeah. So, yeah. So this is again, these topics are it gets complicated tech stack wise. And you really need an agency that understands this stuff and lives and breathes this every day, particularly in health care. You know, I would argue, you know, of course I'm going to say I'm biased and I get it. But really, if you're if you're doing any substantial marketing, my question is why would you use anyways?
00:55:47:16 - 00:55:50:21
Stewart Gandolf
Not in health care experts. Why would you do that? Yeah.
00:55:50:23 - 00:56:01:06
Victoria Shepherd
Yeah, even I'd be curious even seeing what the creative is for, for these meta ads. You know, because creative is obviously, you know, so powerful. So, so.
00:56:01:08 - 00:56:18:11
Stewart Gandolf
Yeah. So, again, the recording will be emailed out to people for, so you'll be able to see that we don't provide the DAC. We do provide the recording that'll be available. Brett. Victoria, any last, questions before we wrap up? And again, you can always call me if you have additional questions, but, I gonna wrap up now.
00:56:18:15 - 00:56:19:20
Stewart Gandolf
So we stay on time. And I think.
00:56:19:20 - 00:56:21:14
Victoria Shepherd
We're. I think we're all good.
00:56:21:16 - 00:56:24:05
Stewart Gandolf
Brett, any other final comments?
00:56:24:07 - 00:56:27:01
Brett Maurer
No, I think okay. Thank you.
00:56:27:03 - 00:56:27:09
Stewart Gandolf
All right.