The Power of Podcasting for Healthcare: Building Trust and Expanding Reach

Stewart Gandolf

Hello, everyone. This is Stewart Gandolf again, with our podcast and today, I am going to introduce you to the topic of podcasting. And so, I've been doing podcasting for a long time. But Jeremy Weiss reached out to me. I don't know a couple of years ago, or someone on his team did. And I thought, you know, I've been doing this on my own sort of freelance for a long time, and I should get additional input. And I'm always just a student of life, Jeremy, I love learning from every source, and a lot of people had said, Oh, God, you've already done 100 podcasts. Why don't you just, you know, keep doing that. I'm like, well, yeah. But if I get some additional ideas. Why not? And so, I worked with Jerry and got additional ideas and implemented a lot of what we talked about before, and it occurred to me, I don't know, a couple weeks ago I thought. God, Jerry, be great on my show. And I know podcasting is interesting to a lot of people. So, I thought today I would share a little bit of the secret sauce that I do. So, I'll be putting in my own input. So those of you who follow our podcast, will know. But Jerry does nothing but podcasts. We were just joking before we started here that running a company and a podcast, is hard. But Jeremy does podcasting and runs his company at the same time, anyway. Welcome, Jerry, good to see Jeremy good to see you.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

Yeah, thanks for having me. And it's funny. I mean, I love your podcast. Healthcare Success. And you know, my background is in biochemistry as a chiropractor. So, there's not many people out there. I mean, I've been podcasting for over 15 years at this point. But I do love your topics too.

Stewart Gandolf

Great awesome. So, Jeremy, we're gonna jump straight into this in a second here. But just to ground people you just mentioned a little bit about your background. But tell us about the work you do these days with Rise25.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

Yeah, I told you about my background. I started, you know, in chiropractic. So, they teach you. And this is why people need you. You know, actually, Stewart, because they don't teach you anything about business. They don't teach you about marketing or anything. They teach you to be a doctor or chiropractor, or whatever it is. So, I was going to marketing conferences back in the day to go, okay, I have my own practice. I need to learn this stuff.

And I stumbled across this podcasting thing. And so, I started, and I'm fascinated by entrepreneurs, founders and how they built their business. And so, I started interviewing entrepreneurs and founders back in 2007-8. And at that point, you know, I don't know if, even when we were calling it a, podcast it was like, maybe just publishing a video online as using Skype for doing that. And I was able to just connect with some amazing people, even from a professional development standpoint, just learning from people is valuable. And what happened was people started coming to me asking me to help them. Because there weren't that many people out there at that point doing it. And so, I put in because I was running a practice. I had to put a team in place. And so I'm like, Yeah, you know, I'm happy to help you and do strategy. And you know, do the back-end execution production, and that by accident turned into a separate business. Okay? And eventually I exited my chiropractic business. And I really just focus on Rise25, where we help people, we launch and run podcasts for businesses.

Stewart Gandolf

Great. So, Jeremy, you know, with our audience. And it's funny we'll talk a little about building a successful podcast in a bit here. But our audience is pretty varied across healthcare. So, we work a lot with multi-location practices and hospitals and health systems, private equity, SaaS device, Pharma, Telehealth. A whole bunch of different verticals, health plans. But a lot of them are asking me, maybe because they listen to our podcast, you know, about podcasts. So broadly speaking, even though we have a varied audience, why do you know what common themes do you think would be relevant for these multiple audiences?

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

So, I'm going to say something. I'm a bit contrarian, right? And because a lot of people, the first question ask is, Well, how do I get downloads to subscribers? How do we get listeners? And I would do the podcast if no one was listening to it? Okay? And there's a couple reasons why. One for one, it's great SEO for 2. It's great professional development. If I want to learn anything. If you know, I want to learn about negotiation, you know, like Chris Voss from Never Split the Difference. He was an ex FBI hostage, negotiator on my podcast asking him about negotiation. So, from a professional development standpoint from a thought leadership standpoint. Okay? We run my wife's practice. Who is a psychology practice Coping Partners. And you know she interviews her staff members for their thought leadership. So, like if they're introducing a new client patient to that person and go hey, check this person's background out and listen and hear about them and their experience. So, it could be from like an internal thought leadership of the company as well, and then, obviously from a referral or client, you know, perspective like, if people have especially medical practices, we find if people have, like great referral partners well, those referral partners are usually in an adjacent industry and highlighting their thought leadership. And that gives that thought, that referral partner a great piece of content to share with their people. And obviously that tracks back to that company's podcast so it's great from like a referral partnership perspective to have referral partners on right and past clients, right past clients and current clients. A lot of these, at least from like, I'm thinking, from a medical standpoint. If they want to produce case studies, right? They could have past or current patients, clients, or whatever it is, on the show and highlight, those people. Obviously they get agreement ahead of time. So, if it's HIPAA or whatever, but they can get agreement from that person to highlight their story, right? So those are just a few ways, and that is across industry, Stewart, right. It doesn't matter if someone's in PE doesn't matter. If someone has a medical practice. You know, people have referral partners. They have current or past clients or patients. They have potential patients or clients, and they have thought leadership within their company. It applies across the board.

Stewart Gandolf

So, you know, it's I guess my experience is very similar, you know, and I feel like I backed into a lot of this stuff because you were a pioneer and I was kind of pioneering this, I've been doing podcasts now, for I think the first one was in 2010 but you know, I think was really great in working with you was just to get me recommitted to something I've been doing a long time, and to process it more because I just sort of did stuff naturally and having a process really helps. And but as you're talking about these different examples. We do variations of that. All the time we've had our employees on. We've had new thought leaders people want to work with. We just had a, one of our clients came on recently, and was the most glowing endorsement, and I would have been sheepish to ask him to say, this is an endorsement that honestly, was not why I brought him on, but he had volunteered himself, and we went back to the transcript and said, hey, this is what you said about us. Can I use this in my promotion? He's like 100%. And I was like jeez, I knew he was happy. He was that happy. So anyway. So, there's lots of ways of doing this. Well, what makes, you know, podcasting, you know, unique compared to other channels. And actually, before I ask that question, I want to pin that just for a sec, I would say that if you're in the world of content marketing, some of the big ones include, you know, blogs obviously, which are a little quicker and easier than podcast, and then, although not necessarily, that, much easier. And then you've got webinars which are more of a commitment and there's other lots of other forms. But podcast….

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

Yeah, webinars are definitely a different beast. But yeah, totally. But like I would say, I,

my background is in biochemistry. Right? My business partner, John Corcoran, was a speechwriter at the White House. He wrote for Inc. and Forbes and all these places.

If you asked me to write an article, Stewart, I would probably have produced one in like 5 years. Okay, like, I find that to be difficult. But I could hop on with someone for 30 to 40 min.

And you know. Obviously we submit it to the team and they do it behind the scenes. But I've been doing 2 to 3 episodes a week which with it, which means a full blog post, full transcript. Everything for a decade. Right? And so that is for me way easier than writing a blog post.

Stewart Gandolf

That's a really good point. And that's again going back to the process. And for people that are looking at doing this and looking at your firm to all that stuff, and it's not as hard as it sounds. If it seems so daunting at first If you've never done this but once you start doing it, it's like, Oh, this is kind of fun. So, I agree. So going back to the bigger question, because you're right, webinars are different beast. But compared to other sort of promotional activities which there's a lot. Right? There's paid advertising. There's SEO which you mentioned, the podcasting can help with that there's social media, there's, you know, hand on hand. But like, what are some of the unique benefits, I guess of a podcast, in addition to stuff, we've talked about.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com
Yeah. For me, people also, I think Stewart are thinking of content. I think of it as yeah, it's content plus relationships. Because when I have someone on I am looking at ways to give to them like I have a great episode with you, and when I want to make an introduction to someone to meet you. I send them the episode okay, and that allows them to go deeper it. So, I find it to be amazing with relationships. Cause, I'm looking at ways down to help.

You know, when I have someone on my show, I'm not really looking for a referral partner. I'm not looking for a client. This is gonna again sound weird. What I am looking is to help them get a referral partner or them get a client right? Because when we post it across social media, we post it on our website. You know, it's going to attract people to their story in them. And no one has ever, said Stewart to me. Jeremy, stop sending me referrals. Stop sending me clients. Stop promoting my business. Okay, it's never happened, and so I see it as an amazing way to give to my network of people, and I always look at ways on how I can give first, I'm not expecting anything in return from it. But I want to give, and that's the way I look at it as an amazing way to build relationships. And I have gone to family vacations with people I've had on the podcast I've gone to weddings. I'm going this weekend to one person I met through my podcast and I'm going to is flying to Miami, going to his birthday party. And we met, I think, 9 years ago on my podcast.

Stewart Gandolf

Yeah, that's.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

So, it's about relationships. It's about relationships.

Stewart Gandolf

I totally agree. It's funny. I can think of one guy in particular that I see I go to. There's a dental show here in Anaheim every year California Dental Association, and I met him a couple of times one day, so I asked him last time I saw him like, What can I do for you? He's like

you're the only person to ask me that ever when I come to these things. But it really is how I'm wired with that, because it's like, you know, if I go around saying, Will you refer to me? First of all, it's pretty transparent, and secondly, it's just it's not generally not going to work. You have to recognize that most podcasts will not generate business directly. It cannot. It's like, it's more.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

An audience.

Stewart Gandolf

Yeah, but it's more. But you can build relationships that could eventually turn into business for sure. And you could be targeted. We'll talk about that in a minute.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

The other thing I'll point out is sometimes I will sort of vet vendors.

So, it's not just about me, but it's about like what companies I want to work with. And I will sometimes have if I'm thinking of hiring a certain software or something like that, if I can, I will have 3 of the founders on, and I'll just chat with them directly. And they don't know I'm doing this necessarily, but I'm deciding on which one I want to, you know which one I want to go on, which one I want to go with. And you know, typically, I'd be talking to an account manager or something like that, if I'm like, Hey, I'm interested in your software. But I get to talk directly to sometimes the founder, co-founder and hear from them about their company.

Stewart Gandolf

So, it's so funny. You say that. So, I just got back from. We talked about offline 4 conferences in 2 weeks, 2 PE conferences, one about urgent care, and the other was for about hospitals and health systems. And when I'm going to these things I'm looking for, in the back of my mind, who's a good guest, who's a good speaker, who has something to say. So, as I'm watching sessions, I'm kind of paying attention, and not everybody is. I don't invite everybody. It's like, you know, a couple from a conference, not lots because I'm looking for somebody who's really good. If I'm going to bring them on the podcast from that environment, but also vendors. And so, of these last 4 shows, I've found at least 2 vendors. I want to bring on, because I think what they have is innovative and interesting, and they're good, they're good subjects. I also want to add, you know, as you know, Jeremy, I have to add my own 2 cents to these topics, which makes it, I think you'd agree, is a good podcaster. The host has to add comments, too. One of the things.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

Well, it’s a conversation.

Stewart Gandolf

Yeah. Yeah. So, one of the things I've noticed is that I really like beyond the fact that for my own podcast number, one people that I know and respect are now stopping me at the shows and saying, I love your podcast especially episode, blah, blah, blah. So, they're not just, you know, they're actually engaging with this and to the point where they tell me about my own podcast. That's pretty cool. So that these are people I already know, not to mention all the people I don't already know, and also…

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

The way, let me just point something out on that. You know, someone could have a hundred listeners. They could have 50 listeners. But it's the specific authority in that specific niche that matters right. For all we know, you could have 10 listeners. But it's the 10 people you want listening. People go to these shows right? Like the Scott Beckers of the world. I mean, who was on your podcast was a great episode. Those are the people.

Stewart Gandolf

Yeah. And I saw Scott at this last meeting. He just got through with McGuireWoods. Private Equity in Healthcare. Just saw him 2 days ago. Yesterday I saw him yesterday, and he led a interview with a woman who was an entrepreneur and an astronaut, and he was awesome, and I saw him at the end. I said, Scott, I loved your podcast. He's like, I loved your podcast. You know. So, it's a mutual admiration society for sure, and just like with you, and I know you've interviewed Scott as well.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

Time you're in Chicago. Let me know. I'll come to wherever you're at, so.

Stewart Gandolf

I should have. I know.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

Yeah.

Stewart Gandolf

That was a bonehead move on my part.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

Then we would have a story like, See, we meet on a podcast. And now we're meeting in person.

Stewart Gandolf

Yeah, we have to like do a double podcast. So anyway, the idea, the other thing that I think is really cool about this is people that don't know me feel like they do like that is the really cool thing. So, people, once they become a fan of your podcast when they meet you.

And we've been doing content since I started the company 20 years ago, we've been doing blogs and webinars and podcasts. Really, since we started, podcast. We started, I think, in 2010, we founded the firm in 2006. We wrote a blog the first day. So, and that's, I don't know if you know this about me, Jeremy, but I used to lead seminars around the country for 10 years prior, so I already had something to say from doing all that. But anyway, the I love that when people reach out to me from the blog, but more so from the podcast they feel like they know me. The blog is nice, but they don't feel like they really know me. It's just education.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

They could see you. They can hear you, you know. It's a trust and authority piece, and I could read something. But if I'm listening to you and also watching you on video. It's way different trust.

Stewart Gandolf

Yeah, for sure. And it's just it's very. It's much more. You know, sort of organic and natural. It's not scripted, you know. Like we, I have some questions. I wrote down before the podcast. Here. But we're just talking. It's like, and you know, some people, though it attracts people and also deters people. I had someone on who was an amazing agency owner. They do more like e-commerce, CPG, and they were an LA police officer fighting gangs in LA previously. Okay, so he's like a, No BS type of guy right? So, when you hear him talk, some people will resonate with his. You know what he talks about and how he talks, and some people may not also right? And so that's just as important.

Stewart Gandolf

I think so. So, let's talk about. You know we've danced around this, but talk a little bit more about building authority and trust with patients, peers broader community, like any other additional thoughts on that topic.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

No, I mean, listen. It goes into two things which is the thought, leadership and external interviews. When someone has external interviews and they have big authorities in the space like as soon as you go like I had Scott Becker on, you, I'm not gonna say you get immediate authority, but you have elevated authority with certain groups just because they know Scott Becker, even though they don't know you. Right so, and then the thought leadership obviously is an elevated authority. So like, if you are answering the exact questions that they have

one, they're like, okay, this person's inside my head. And two, they're like, okay, this person knows what they're doing, and I trust them.

Stewart Gandolf

So, we just got hired by a hospital. That's part of a larger system that actually has an agency of record. But they're really unhappy with what they're doing. And so, they've been following my podcast, and it was funny on the second or third meeting with them. They hired us almost right away. But you know, we go to a meeting, and 3 or 4 things will come up. I'll literally be sending them podcasts. Like, well, I have a podcast for that, I have a podcast for that. So, I could. You know, for example, like, we talk about digital tracking technologies and HIPAA. I recently, I've worked with this company called Freshpaint. We did a webinar with them a year or 2 ago. But that was updated. Now, so we did an updated podcast which was really easy. It's a conversation. And I put all the links to all the important resources on one. So, I can use that over and over and over again. It's a fantastic piece, and it's not a selling anybody. I think it's just a really useful tool for me in my busy day. And so, I can send it to clients or prospects. And I say, Look, if you if you're smart, you'll listen to the podcast but if the worst case scenario. Here's all your links you need, and everything is organized in a way you can use it.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

I mean, this applies to any business, too, Stewart, because, like every business, has frequently asked questions, I don't care what business you're in. You have frequently asked questions. And how are you answering those proactively so like we have, John and I have a meeting every Wednesday. It's an hour block, and we look at the question now at this point, doing it. For 10 years we've probably recorded an episode almost every possible question we've gotten.

But on that meeting, maybe we have nothing that week, right? But we meet and we go. Okay.

what questions have we gotten this week? That would be important. And the and the cut. You know, we use ClickUp. So, the customer support team adds questions that we're getting into ClickUp that isn't on our podcast because. They also use it from a customer. Support perspective to go. Hey? Here's the answer to your question. Here's a little answer. But here's them talking about it. So, we have a set system to actually make sure we answer all the questions that we're getting proactively.

Stewart Gandolf

Yeah, that's I love it. So, I actually talk about that with my team, too. I like to give them insights into what's happening in our world like the questions we know people are going to ask. So, another thing that's happening right now for us is AI is changing the way people are searching instead of just going to Google. And so, we've done already multiple podcasts on that topic. But we also love to share like case studies of something just happened. And that gives my best stuff. you know, when somebody calls and like an inquiry, and whether it's in blog, format, or podcast format, sharing the insights from your day to day life is usually fascinating people, because it's a story, and you know.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

100%.

Stewart Gandolf

Stories, work, man. Fun, fact. I don't know if I shared this before in a podcast but at thanksgiving, I saw a friend of a friend that I see like almost every year, and he's pretty grumpy. And but this year I was telling a story at the dinner table, and he suddenly moves the plant out of the way so he can hear me now. He's engaged fully, because I was just sharing some funny travel stories, but people love that. And so, if you can bring that to your podcast it's just so much better than dry instructions. Can you think about? I know you've worked with lots of healthcare professionals and various strategies. Can you think of any anecdotes at all that are fun and relevant to our audience? That might be like where it really became a big thing for them, and they're like super excited.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

Well, yeah, I mean, so we have the most random niches under the sun. Okay, from pest control companies to ear surgeons to psychologists, to SaaS companies to private equity. It's like all over the map. Okay. But in the doctor front we were brainstorming, and we kind of talk about the foundational piece for me for a podcast is the Dream 200. Right? You've heard me, we've talked about this right? So, it's 5 steps to profit with a podcast right, there's create your dream. 200. You get ROI with outreach the art and science of the content and obviously technology. And then you build your reach, and then you, you know, form more partners and clients. But

to what you're asking the Dream 200 piece we talked about with this ear surgeon like, Okay.

where are your referrals coming from? Right? And obviously, we're talking. A lot of people have loss of hearing right? Not sure not. You know who are older, right? More, more in the older category. So, we're looking at actually retirement homes like, we're people living that are older. Right? And so, we are tracking back referrals and where they were coming from. And there were ones coming from retirement homes. So, we're like when someone's thinking of a podcast they're, you know, I don't know if they're thinking like I should go have the head of a retirement home on my podcast. Right. That wouldn't be the first thought in their head, but when we track it back to their Dream, 200, it makes perfect sense, and also they are very well versed with what's going on with aging individuals in general. So, it's good content for those aging people. So, you know those things, those simple things like tracking when we first create the strategy and the plan for the Dream 200 to us it's obvious, but at 1st glance it's not. You know what I mean.

Stewart Gandolf

Yeah, no, it totally makes sense. And it's funny. Some topics have more legs than others. Naturally, sometimes you have to work, other times, it's like, wow, this is really rich. And so that can be really helpful. So, as people are thinking about starting a podcast. What are some of the most important questions they should think about. You know, as they contemplate whether to make the time and commitment effort to this and money.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

Yeah, I mean, listen, the most questions, common questions I get, which obviously, we did a podcast episode on is what equipment and setup. But that's not the most important question, right? I mean, we could answer that in one second, because people are usually like, I can't get started because I don't know what equip. Okay, get a USB. Mic. I'm using a Blue Yeti. I think you're using a blue yeti. You can get an ATR 2100 for a hundred bucks on Amazon, and you need Zoom or Microsoft team, or whatever you, I go, I hate to make this super simple, but it, but it is and use whatever you use to record. If you use Google Meets, use Google Meets. If you use Microsoft Teams, use my, whatever. It doesn't matter.

Stewart Gandolf

We're doing this one on Zoom, it’s super east.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

Yeah, you could do it anywhere. So like, that's the question. Honestly, it's where sometimes that holds people up is all. What do I name my all these things that I okay for 6 months. When I first started my podcast I did not have a name for my podcast okay, sometimes this holds people up is like I don't know what to name. I go. I just knew I wanted to get started, and when I introduced it I go, hey? You know. Welcome, Stewart Gandolf. He's a this is part of my podcast. And I didn't even say a name. If anyone goes back and listens to like the first 6 months of my show. I had zero name. Okay for my show. So that didn't hold me back. But what's the most important piece is a foundational thought of what's going to move the needle, because I see people quit doing it. If they don't get ROI and ROI can mean referral partners, strategic partners, clients, even saving time, energy, and money with recording thought leadership episodes. So, I would say, the 1st thing is, just think about the strategic part, and some people like, well, I'm so busy I have no time in my day already, and I'm thinking, well do you want to take time. The most important thing is, do you want to connect with your best referral partners, clients, or potential clients, for me, yes, okay. And I don't have to carve out another 10 hours week. Those people are already in my schedule, typically right? If I look, if you look at your week right now, there's probably 2 or 3 hours or 4 hours where you have calls already scheduled with these people. So, some the kind of the misconception is I need to carve out another 10 hours a week for this thing. Right? Really, you don't right, but you listen. The less people that do it, the less competitive is. So ,I'm fine with that of people like, yeah, this is too much work. Okay, cool. No problem. You know, it leaves more room for everyone else.

Stewart Gandolf

I think it sounds like you're kind of similar to me in personality in that way. I joke oftentimes like I jump off the building and figure out how to fly on the way down, I don’t sit there and contemplate, and so sometimes it hurts.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

If I was jumping up a building, maybe I would contemplate, but.

Stewart Gandolf

Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

Yeah, for it.

Stewart Gandolf

Metaphorical, not disclaimer. Folks don't go jumping off buildings.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

Yeah.

Stewart Gandolf

These are metaphorical buildings. So, you know, like you just mentioned, that's some common mistakes. Any other common mistakes when people are starting a contest, besides just not doing it at all. Any other major mistakes.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

I mean, it's more just letting small things hold people up like the technology set up like the name, like, you know, those I've never seen anyone quit, because you know my audio wasn't that good? And that's why I quit. They quit because they didn't figure out the right strategy to making it work for their business. Okay, that's why people quit. So, it's for me. It's focusing on all the things that don't matter as much when it comes down to it.

Stewart Gandolf

Yeah, that's really common. And you know, it's I look back at the stuff we used to do. And it just gets better and better over time as you get more experience with it, and.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

Here's the thing people come we're talking about like I come from. You know the chiropractic background. We had to be very detailed through school. John, my business partner, was a lawyer, you know, recovering lawyer has to be very detailed. So, applying the same thing

to something. If someone's doing a surgery and doing a podcast right? That's a natural thing, because there's a perfection. We call it the perfectionist dilemma. They're applying the same thing that was successful with them, with someone in their profession to doing a podcast and then that holds them up right? And so that becomes an issue. When it comes to this doing this type of medium, you know.

Stewart Gandolf

Right? Yeah, the perfection is the enemy of good. How do you discuss? And I could see, especially with very analytical doctors, how that could be really difficult. How do you? Well, first of all, I have a question as I've been thinking about all this time. How do you define? How do I say this? I'm sure you're going to say anybody can be a Podcaster. But in the world of human endeavor some people are better at this than other. And you know anything right? So like, is there anybody who just shouldn't do it? Or if they're not as good, should they practice, or is there naturals like help me understand that.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

I've had people.

Stewart Gandolf

I’m sorry, on the host side and the guest side.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

Yeah, yeah, I've had people say, and they've been on the phone. And they're like, I'm thinking of doing this. You know. And should I be the host of the pod? Or they didn't say, should I be the host of the podcast? Go? I don't know. If I should do this. I don't really like it. I don't like talking to people or whatever. And I said to them, you shouldn't do it like everything you're telling me

is telling me you shouldn't do. They're like, I'm super introverted. I don't like talking to people, you know. I mean, there's introverted people who do like talking to people that are curious. But like this, I'm thinking of this particular person. They go. I'm introverted. I don't like talking to people. I just like doing my thing with the business. Should I be doing a podcast, I go? No.

I go one. You should. You should never host a podcast, if you don't like doing it. But 2. If you have someone from your company that does like that stuff, then you should. Your company should be doing a podcast, but you shouldn't be doing a podcast, right? Because do you still want to be doing business development, creating content, getting referrals, all those things?

Your company should be doing it, but you should not be doing it right. So, if someone doesn't gain energy and hates doing it, I would say, don't do it, but find someone.

Stewart Gandolf

Great advice. I appreciate that it's very real, because, you know, like the everybody looks at social media influencers as the standard. The one person out of literally millions who's got a huge following. And you know you, I always tell people, yeah, they exist. But it's not going to be you. Get your expectations real, and the people that are like that have an entourage following them around with, you know, Instagram boyfriend isn't enough. They have, like, you know. I think I have one doctor in particular. She's a plastic surgeon, I think, and she has 2 or 3 social media people. She goes to events, looking for social media. She loves it. She's attractive, you know. To her it's play. It's pleasure to do it. Well, naturally she's gonna be better at it. And so.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

Totally.

Stewart Gandolf

But versus you know somebody else who hates the whole idea that yeah, there's other life is short. Do stuff you like. You'll be better at it, too.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

We've had a few people from companies like the co-founders, and then their director of sales or business development, and we have them each kind of co-host, the podcast not together, but like they'll interview people separately. And usually it rises to the top of like who really enjoys it, thrives in it, and gets it. And some, you know, one person maybe, do like 2 of the 2 interviews, the other person, maybe 3. And then the 3rd person is doing like 30 of them. Right? So, it just you find out who actually loves it, and we'll keep doing it.

Stewart Gandolf

So, I would just also added that if it's employees I would mix it around. So, you don't, because I've seen this before. There was one prominent blogging company. Had an author write all their blogs under her name. She left, and there goes the brand recognition. That's a problem.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

Totally.

Stewart Gandolf

So, if you're going to do that, spread it out. Let's talk about defining the target audience. And I guess two target audiences. You mentioned your dream 200, which, essentially because we didn't say what that is. That's really Jeremy's great idea of figuring out your Dream 200 guests that you'd like to have, and he has a whole process to define that but I think you know. So there's that. But I was really more interested in the target audience of who you're trying to reach with the podcast and any other sort of tips around that.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

Yeah. So like, thanks for clarifying that. So, Dream 200, I would define as it could be referral partners or strategic partners. It could be anywhere, clients, potential clients, and also just big authorities in the space that you're in, right, whether it's healthcare, manufacturing, or whatever it is. You know, the target audience goes back to that question and the Dream 200. So, I look at, you know, if I have a head of a PE firm on my podcast typically, they just know other people in the private equity space. If I have a surgeon on my podcast typically, they know a lot of surgeons. So, by having certain guests on your podcast because the episode is about them. That's the cool inherent thing, about a podcast interview podcast is because those people then share it with their circle they could be sharing it on, I mean, for in my world we share a lot of stuff on LinkedIn, because it's a lot of B2B. Some people may on different may be on different channels, but that's the cool thing is. I don't have to worry as much about getting it in front of the like, you know, people the audience per se. But if I have someone who's a, you know, prominent who runs a prominent SaaS group. It's not shocking that people who have software companies are going to see the podcast, so I think of kind of common trends with the Dream 200. So, when I think of common trends, I'm thinking of consultants or practice management groups in your industry, and this applies to anything. Right? If we're talking about

Dental, software, whatever consultants or practice management groups in that industry, trade associations in that industry, people who run conferences in that industry the best you know. Ask your customers what software services they use, because those are all reservoirs of where your audience and your clients are living, right? Speakers and authors industry you mentioned. When you go to a show there are speakers that are awesome. I mean, guess what those speakers are going probably to speaking at 10 shows this year right? And so, they are very well connected in those specific niches. So that's kind of how I think about target audience, and like the trends. When I think of Dream 200.

Stewart Gandolf

And it's easier for us to some degree, because even though it's pretty wide, as I said at the beginning of the show today, it's still healthcare, related people that are interested in healthcare. So, when I go to private equity, I'm not going to general private equity conferences. I'm going to private equity healthcare conferences, so that there's a lot of cross pollination there within those various verticals. And the other thing that.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

I mean, you could go even more specific, right, Stewart, like, if we just talked one little like dermatology. Right? You go look at dermatology consultants, practice management groups, dermatology, trade associations, dermatology conferences, dermatology software, dermatology who's speaking and authoring books in dermatology, all those things apply if we just plug in the specific niche, even within healthcare.

Stewart Gandolf

Yeah. And I feel like there's also I mean, some people just like they're not like sort of as I used to have doctors say like, I don't want to blow my own or toot my own horn, but there are people that enjoy being in the limelight they like. They like building a following. They might have a book. They might be speaking. And I tend, they tend to have their own audience. And so, it's by doing a podcast with them. I'm not doing it solely because of that. But it's a nice benefit that if they have an audience, then A first of all, they're probably going to be good. They're probably going to have something to say, and they have their own audience. And so, our audience. And so, what's usually a synergy thing. Everybody wins like I'm exposing them to my audience. They're exposing me to their audience, and both audiences get to know somebody new. And it's like it's the ultimate win-win. And so, it's a really easy way to build things.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

I think you know you mentioned that. I don't like being in the limelight personally, but what I do like, the way I think of it is like, I like to add value to people, and that's I'm sure, that people in healthcare got into it to add value to people. And so, I consider it, you know, a privilege to like. Try and add as much value as possible, you know, to someone, because it's not about my ego. It's just very conversational as well.

Stewart Gandolf

Yeah, I think for me, I characterize myself as an Ambivert. I can be a lot of people think. Oh, he is too much like the people had dinner with me a couple of nights ago. They think I'm the ultimate extrovert. I was having fun, but I can be quiet and shy. Sometimes it depends on my mood. It really does. It feels. How do I feel? Most people think I'm an extrovert, but I really have both sides of my personality for sure, but I so I don't do it because I need to blow my own horn. I do it because I like educating. I figured out. I stumbled into both healthcare and educating, you know, back in the nineties, when I was a speaker in healthcare, and I found out I could do it. And I liked it. And so, it just it plays to my strength, right? I enjoy doing this stuff

The, you mentioned earlier, you know building relationships. And so, I'd love you to speak to drill down a little bit more on that, for example. You know, like well, one thing, I'll share an idea before, and I'll ask you for additional. But like it's a networking thing like you said like, so, for example, I was invited. Oh, this is a fun story. Years ago, I was noticing somebody on my blog who's more engaged with my content than my editor that I was paying money to. She was on my LinkedIn, she was commenting. and I said, And this is back, you know, 10 years ago at least, and I called it more than that I called her and go. What's up? Who are you? And so, we developed a relationship there with no idea about authorship. She's a thought leader in healthcare. She went to work at Cleveland Clinic, and then I found myself a couple of weeks later she got me invited to speak at the Cleveland clinic, Patient Experience Summit.

And so, from there I met all kinds of fantastic people, and it just grew. And these are friends. To this day. One of the people I spoke with at that summit just reach out to me the other day. He just got laid off, due to some of the changes in our Federal Government—I'll put it that way. And you know he called me looking for ideas. This is a MD. Highly specialized MD. You know, for help with his career going forward like that was a relationship I made from calling somebody who was on my blog. You know, 12 years ago. So, it's crazy. So, you know, I'd love you to build on that like what other tips about, you know, finding the right people or building relationships you mentioned giving to others. But anything else.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

Yeah, I have two simple steps for that. Okay, one is I ask them exactly, what is a need for them?

Okay, that's it. Okay, that that's my one thing is like, I find out what someone's biggest focus is one and two, I give it and help as much as humanly possible for that. Okay, now, if anyone's listening, there's a book Adam Grant wrote, Give and Take. So you, I was.

Stewart Gandolf

I promise.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

What's up?

Stewart Gandolf

I said, there, aren't, you said? If anybody's listening, I promise people are listening.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

I mean, whoever. I don't know if they've listened to that or heard that book, but like.

Stewart Gandolf

I’m teasing you.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

Yeah, it basically talks about givers, matchers and takers. And the givers are the least successful people and the most successful people, because people who give to maybe the wrong people. They're spending all spinning their wheels and spending all their time giving the wrong people. So, I say, that is, I like to give to other givers.       

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

And so I like to find out their biggest focus and give as much as humanly.

Stewart Gandolf

What's the name of the book again? I would like to check that out.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com3

Give and Take, by Adam Grant. And it's a great book. And I would consider myself a giver. And so, I can identify okay, someone like a taker. Basically, we know that, like, if you talk to someone, they're always they're only calling you Stewart when they need something.

Stewart Gandolf

Yeah.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

That's it, that's all. The only reason they're calling. And there's matchers like, hey, I'll give you something if you give me something in equal exchange, right?

And, but givers just want to give. I mean, that's their natural inclination. Like, if someone contacts me, I naturally just want to like introduce them to people or help them or do whatever it is right. And so, to answer your question about relationships is, I want to find out someone's biggest focus and help them as much as humanly possible.

Stewart Gandolf

I love it.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

And so like, I'll give you an example. I mean this across the board, right if I'm like talking to someone like, what do you, what's your biggest focus? How can I help? And I just think of how I can help. I had, sometimes I'll do this on the podcast. And I'll ask, maybe during the interview or after like, who do you want to connect with like? Who can I help you connect with? And I just decided after I had Tony Horton of P90X on the podcast okay. And afterwards, I was like, I'm just curious. So like, if you could train anyone like one on one. Give me three people and I'll get you introduced to one of them. Okay, it's almost like I want. I just like flex like just seeing if I could do it. Okay, give me any three people. And he's like, Okay, he's thinking I didn't know him, by the way, until the interview. And he's like this guy's crazy. And he said, Blake Griffin, who's and feel another NBA basketball player, Elon Musk, and Steve Nash, okay, another basketball player. I'm like, Oh God, okay, this is gonna be, this is gonna be I go. And I said, I'll do it in 2 weeks or less. That's what I said to him. And he's like, okay. So, my mind was spinning and I went through at the time Blake Griffin was, I think, in the NBA playoffs I'm like that's going to be too difficult. There's no possible way. I'm going to get that Elon Musk would be a

really difficult but, like, you know. I think I'm like I think I connected with his brother on Twitter. Maybe you know Tony Horton is some cache, right so and so I'm looking at Steve Nash and Elon Musk. But what I did was, I found out that Steve Nash, through some research, had a foundation for kids health, and I'm like it's about help. So, I was. I needed to help the other person as well as Tony Horton, so I immediately I'm like, Oh my God, Tony Horton is health. Steve Nash has a foundation to help kids with health. So, honestly in less than a week I was able to reach out and connect them. And they met. And I think they, you know, he ended up going to sitting at a table with Steve Nash, who was like hosting some kind of like sports awards dinner or something, right? And they were planning something together. So, my point is, goes back to. And I didn't know Steve Nash. Obviously, I hardly knew Tony Horton at the time. but it goes to the same principle which is, find out what their what their focus is, and then see how I can help. That's a give to both parties.

Stewart Gandolf

I love that, you know. It's funny, too, because what you did there, though, was, you found that you,you figured out and in with the target audience of like, what is he trying to do? Right? You're thinking about it from his point of view. Like, if I can help you help kids, you know. Would you be interested and like, well, of course I would. And that's like it's always there.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

It's got to help both people. Yeah, I can't just benefit one person. So, how can it help both people.

Stewart Gandolf

So, I want to talk about the practical reality of this. So, I get calls. We get calls every day from people that are interested in doing business with us, which I'm very fortunate to have that kind of experience. Having worked on building a reputation over the years. Obviously not everybody's right for us. And one of the ones that, classically, is like sort of a category of potential client is someone that calls me. And they want to do B2B, which is harder than B2C, and they say.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

For me. I think it's easy for me. That's.

Stewart Gandolf

Yeah, that's true. Different ways. Yeah, you look at it both ways.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

Yeah.

Stewart Gandolf

The thing I'm getting at is they usually come into it. If they're not very savvy, and they'll say something like, Well, I'll do it for a month or 2, but then I want out if I'm not getting results.

I want thought leadership like you have, Stewart. But if I'm not seeing results in the 1st month or 2. I want to clock. and all that. The way I want you to do on commission. You need to have skin on the game, too, and I just giggle. It's like, you know what you shouldn't do it like if you have your eye on the exit before you even start down this road. My argument is, I'll see if you agree is, don't do it. I didn't build thought leadership in a week or 2 months, or 3 months, or even 3 years. It takes time, and so you have to be, in my opinion, committed to it. It doesn't mean you have to commit 20 years like I did. But seriously to me, if you're looking at the exit before you even begin, that's a problem. What do you think, Jeremy?

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

The reason I like B2B more. Okay, I think what you do is actually harder in B2C, because it's a higher leveraged relationship. So, like when I look at a B2B, and I think of usually it's a higher lifetime value of a client or referral partner. So, I always think of it in terms of relationships. If I look at, I look at it in the course of a year. Okay, so I get that, too, like, well, I'm gonna try it. And I'm like, Okay. there's no trying it. I go. Here's what I say. I go. It's not a matter of if it's a matter of when. Okay. So, I don't know if you know the 15 referral partners you had, I can't predict when they're going to refer to you. But I can predict that they're gonna refer to you on a more frequent basis. If you're more top of mind for them. I don't know what that frequent. I don't know what that basis is, but I look at the course of a year, and let's say I have. You know, I have a hundred to 150 episodes a year. If I if let's say 70 of those people are referral partners.

and only 10% of them refer one person, right? Depending on the lifetime value of a patient client, whatever that is significant. Right? So like, I look at it in terms of a year. And I look at it in terms of relationships that I form in that year. Right? And so, I agree with you trying. It's like, well, I'm gonna try. I compare it to working out right like health. I'm going to try and get fit. But if this, if this, if I go to the gym for a week and eat good for a week, and it's not working. I'm going to quit well like that doesn't work that way, right? And so, especially anyone in the healthcare field, you know. If you try to work out for a week and eat well for a week, and you don't see a difference. Are you gonna like? Forget it. This doesn't work.

No, I have to do it every single day, every single week, for months and years, and sometimes a couple years later, you start to see. I start to see the gains, you know, on those things. So, I, you know, we're talking on the Healthcare Success Podcast here, I totally relate it to health. And like, you know, someone comes in. They have like they're just overweight. They're terrible in health, like, just give me a pill, and no, it doesn't work that way. You can't just get eat a pill, and you'll be fine, you know.

Stewart Gandolf

And I think that a lot of our, you know, people that were listening. Some of them are interested in doing their own podcast. And a lot are just looking at it, doing it on the behalf of their organization. So, they have to sell this. And so, if you're in that situation, whether you're going to be the post or not for your organization. Maybe you're just in the marketing department, for you know, a larger business, you know, I still think you need to convince leadership that this is a long term endeavor, because otherwise you're gonna be holding an empty, you know bag of empty air, and they're gonna be blaming you.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

They'll ask the same questions like, how many downloads subscribers do we have? And then you're like, that's not the I find that's not the right metric to measure the success of a podcast if you are measuring that as a success, there's gonna be many people disappointed, right?

Stewart Gandolf

Yeah. And like, you know, on that note, we're gonna wrap up here in about 5 min. The you know, for our experience. We promote it like when we do it. A lot of this is how you promote it. Right. As already mentioned, it's good to have people that can actually have their own following will help you don't always do that, but that certainly helps but for us and for our clients, because we do this for our clients as well as you do, but you know for us we're doing more of a broader thing, and I love your specialization. By the way. I think it's great what you do the

But you know LinkedIn has become such a fascinating tool for us and for our clients. It's changed over the last few years. It used to be just a place to go post a job, and now it's become a social network and given the collapse of Twitter. A lot of people that were more on Twitter are going over there, especially if they're really business driven. And the

So, it's really been a rise. And interestingly, we have about 5,000 followers. We used to have a 20,000 engaged Newsletter email list. And now we have about 5,000 engaged newsletter guests, but we have another 20,000 or so LinkedIn followers. So, the numbers are roughly the same. But the engagement is much higher on LinkedIn for us than our email list, because people that are going there to consume content or by definition want content. I mean, they opted into it. I don't know if you find the same thing. But when you're talking about promoting, and any other ideas.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

Yeah, I mean, I am. I geek out on LinkedIn, Stewart I think it's the one of the best channels, because actual professionals are on there and so I am all about LinkedIn. And I look at. And I tell people this, if you search for people and I've done this in talks I've given on LinkedIn optimization, you know. And I did this with, I found out the people in the crowd ahead of time.

and so, I went through. How do you optimize your profile? Which is, I consider, people should treat it like a high converting landing page, right their LinkedIn profile. And then I did searches, a lot of times when you search for someone. Their 1st link is LinkedIn for people, and if you go to it there's no picture. There's nothing on it. There's no file. It literally looks like the person's a ghost. And so, just by that alone, I would, I tell people, go on and optimize your LinkedIn profile like, you know. Look, can you know? Look at Stewarts? Look at mine and see what we do there, because we could have a talk for another hour on optimizing your LinkedIn profile, but that in itself people are judging others. Once they click and they're looking at that, right. If that's not built out at a minimum, forget about like posting anything like people are dropping the ball with just our profile piece.

Stewart Gandolf

Yeah, so any last comments, this has been so much fun. Jeremy, I knew this would be a fun podcast and it's like, this isn't too hard for either of us to do. But any other final comments.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

My only final comment is, you know, if you, if you don't get anything else from it like, go out, think of like who are your best advocates and people in your universe and send them a message just thanking them. Right? That's it. It's just about appreciating them. We're talking about a lot of stuff here, but for me it boils down to going to your best, your favorite people in your universe, you know. It could be personal. It could be business and just like appreciating them, even if we're thinking in our head on a daily or weekly basis. And I try and send. Go in my texts once a day, and I'll send like 5 messages just to people just to like what are you up to? Thank you, you know, for what you've done, and for helping me, that's it.

Stewart Gandolf

So, I'm gonna put your contact info. So, if you're accessing this recording from our blog, you'll be able to find Jeremy's contact info but for those that are listening and via streaming service. Jeremy, how do they reach you?

Dr. Jeremy Weisz - Rise25.com

Yeah, you, you can. My, podcast is inspiredinsider.com. I have an amazing episode with a guy named Stewart Gandolf. You should check that one out, and also Rise25.com as well. I'm on LinkedIn. As you mentioned Jeremy Weiss, W-E-I-S-Z. There's not many people with the spelling of my name, so you can contact me there and say, Hello.

Stewart Gandolf

Great, awesome, Jeremy. I appreciate your time today.

Thank you.